I bought a Mazda today

"stuttgartobsessed" (grantharmsen)
05/31/2014 at 22:26 • Filed to: None

More details to come tomorrow. But now I have a beater I can drive so I can work on the Alfa.

DISCUSSION (6)

Makoyouidiot > stuttgartobsessed
05/31/2014 at 22:44

Zoom-zoom

JasonStern911 > stuttgartobsessed
05/31/2014 at 23:52

It's not an RX-8, is it? If so, the Alfa will be the beater while you work on your rotary. :O

2tonic > JasonStern911
06/01/2014 at 07:37

For the record, I bought a used '83 RX-7 GSL-SE (13B motor) in 1988 and put 40k miles on it with no engine issues of any kind for a total of 70k when the car was sold. I also owned a 2004 RX-8 from new and did 53,000 miles with zero issues of any kind. Most reliable car I've ever owned. I am aware of the problems with the Renesis but not every car was affected.

The general consensus with rotaries within the rotary community is just add oil when needed and never let the car overheat. I know folks with 200k+ plus on original 12A and 13B rotaries. I also feel there is some ignorance with rotaries consuming oil. Injecting oil into the combustion chamber is part of the lubrication process, it doesn't mean the engine is defective or worn out - it's part of normal operation due to the design of the motor.

stuttgartobsessed > JasonStern911
06/01/2014 at 16:57

It's an '87 626

JasonStern911 > 2tonic
06/02/2014 at 01:27

First off - let's be clear - the rotary is an overly complicated two stroke. Not bashing it - I love two stroke motors. But I also realize their limitations.

Secondly - I completely agree that the later 12A and early 13B had a reliability rating that rivaled their contemporaries. But that was 25 years ago. Since then, you have a 13BTT that needs to be rebuilt every 60k miles, and a Renesis that Mazda had to exclude from their reliability survey rankings because it was so bad. And while these facts hurt you and you want to propagate the myth that only a few modern rotaries were affected, or if you only drive them on a Tuesday with a shot of Lucas two stroke oil in the gas tank, they will totally last - it doesn't change the facts. The FD3S is an amazing chassis, even to this day. And the RX8 is not only a practical daily driver, but the handling and weight is absolutely amazing for what the car is priced at.

But that doesn't exempt the rotary for being outdated technology. Yes, in an era of first generation small block Chevys, they can be reliable. But they still under performed in both power and fuel economy. And I get the rev happy nature of the rotary, but it's not like contemporary four stroke motorcycles weren't out-reving them.

You don't redesign a motor to include additional oil injectors and voluntarily extend an 8 year, 100k powertrain warranty if there wasn't a design flaw. If you want proof, Look at how far Ford and GM go kicking and screaming to avoid a recall.

So, in conclusion, if modern rotary enthusiasts would just accept that the motors need to be rebuilt more frequently than their four stroke piston contemporaries, and that they lack both fuel economy (with respect to displacement) and power (with respect to fuel consumption), but instead they are a different beast of a motor - something with a rev happy nature that is more driver oriented than your traditional low RPM torque emphasized car, they wouldn't be hipster internet trolls. But the "OMG! SOMEONE INSULTED AN OBVIOUS PHYSICAL DEFECT IN THE MOTOR! IRRATIONALY RESPOND WITHOUT FACTS!" attitude just propagates the dislike between rotary and non-rotary fans.

Full disclosure: Known in passing SA22 and FC3S owners, briefly driven an FD3S, owned an RX-8 and all of the headaches associated with it, and wish my 996 was a two-stroke as long as I never had to drive it in stop-go traffic.

2tonic > JasonStern911
06/02/2014 at 12:13

Jason - your Renesis observations may be statistically valid but that was not my experience with the engine, as well as good friend of mine who took his RX-8 to 70k with no issues. Now 60-70k isn't a very long life if those motors failed soon after we traded on the cars, but I don't know what happened to our two cars post trade. We walked away after owning the cars for four years with no issues.

Perhaps me and my friend were exceptions to the rule. At the same time, I don't want to appear as a fanboy for the Renesis or for any other motor or marque. One thing I've never liked about rotaries is the lack of complexity to the engine note - just a couple of fundamental tones with out harmonics or other additional interesting sounds. In the long run I'm happiest with a straight six unless I win the lottery and a Colombo V-12 Ferrari becomes a possibility.

Good day